The Board of Governors is responsible for ensuring the BBC delivers value for money in return for the Licence Fee. They want to hear what you think about the programmes and services you get from the BBC.
On Wednesday 29th March 2006 around 130 members of the public had the opportunity of questioning members of the BBC's Board of Governors and representatives of Senior Management at a public meeting held at the BBC's Blackstaff House in Belfast. A panel, consisting of the following Governors - Michael Grade (Chairman); Fabian Monds (BBC National Governor for Northern Ireland); Ruth Deech ; Dermot Gleeson and Ranjit Sondhi - took questions on a wide variety of subjects.
You can read a detailed account of the questions asked and the responses below. Alternatively you can watch the debate as it happened using the webstream links.
Please use the links below to read the specific questions and answers raised on various subjects.
Funding the BBC
Serving Younger Audiences
Digital
Taste and Decency - language
Irish Language Provision
Drama Production
Complaints
Sports Coverage
Taste and Decency - Jerry Springer the Opera
Local Programming
Programming and Care for Audiences
Repeats
Question
The present TV tax raises more money than from petrol tax. How on earth can they represent value for money?
Ruth Deech (BBC Governor) responded:
I'm sorry you call it a tax because the point about the licence fee, it's not a tax. It's not something that the Government imposes, it's a sum of money that all of us who view and who listen pay. It's not a tax. I think that's quite important. It's £130 a year, around about that at the moment. That gets you a lot. Much more in a way that your petrol analogy. It gets you the radio that keeps you entertained in your car and maybe all day. It gets you programmes for your children, for the elderly. It gets you the online services. It gets you the new technology that's coming our way over the next few years, with programmes on demand. I think it's money well spent, especially here in Northern Ireland . It introduces parts of the country to each other that wouldn't otherwise know what is going on. £130 I know is a lot of money, especially when you are paying it out in one go, but it's about £10 a month. There's not a lot of other entertainment of that quality you can get for £10 a month. What is it, it's a couple of cinema tickets a month, maybe two or three video rentals. I think it's tremendous value for money. I think it's really important in the life of the nation. And above all, it's the licence fee, it's what you and I pay, it belongs to us, it's definitely not a tax.
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
The reason it's compulsory, it's universally available. If it weren't compulsory and people were able to opt out, the cost would go up, it wouldn't come down. You would have the choice certainly, but the cost of the licence fee would shoot up if masses of people opted out.
Ranjit Sondi (BBC Governor) added
The alternative is television with subscription or television with advertisements. The people surveyed on how to fund the BBC say they don't want advertisements on the BBC . In a sense, the television licence fee becomes the least worst method of funding a public service like the BBC.
Question
If the BBC doesn't secure the annual fee increase 2.3% above inflation as it has requested, what areas should be cut?
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) responded:
Good question. The answer is until we know precisely what the settlement will be, we can't really tell. We will have to sit down and look at how much money is available, and reorder our priorities. The licence fee bid, which you are referring to, which was the BBC's public bid, the first time we have ever gone public with the licence fee bid, and it is only a bid at this stage, was the best estimate we could possibly make of what it would cost to provide the services and the vision for the BBC, which the Government laid down in its green paper. The green paper said, this is what the BBC should be doing. We have consulted the public. This is what they tell us they want the BBC to do. We put in a bill which says RPI plus 2.3, the best we could estimate the cost of doing that. Even with that, 70% of the BBC's additional spend, the additional investment we want to make in the services, would be funded in efficiencies through the BBC. What we call self-help. It's quite an ambitious plan. It wasn't a plan simply to expand the BBC, it was a plan based on what the Licence Fee payers told us they wanted to see. For example, fewer repeats - the issue of repeats drives people crazy, the fact that same thing comes around over and over again, on prime time BBC One. Cost of a repeat is about £15,000 to £30,000 an hour. An average cost. A range. The cost of a original comedy or on original hour of drama, which is what the licence fee payers tell us they want more of, is £500,000 to £600,000 an hour. The bid is a response to what the public is telling us. We're trying to fund as much as we can through efficiencies. Coming back to your direct question, - it's impossible to say, until you know exactly how much money is available, how we will order the priorities. In the end the governors will have to take a view on the best value of money of the available money.
Dermot Gleeson (BBC Governor) added:
We're here to listen. I would like to know what the questioner thinks we should cut first.
Questioner:
Maybe sport.
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
Anybody else agree?
Audience:
No!
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
Now you see the problem.
Questioner:
I was interested in the figures you quote, £30,000 versus
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
£500,000 or £600 000.
Questioner:
I see a problem in terms of the economics of putting out programmes, but I'm very committed to the BBC and it's output, which I think is tremendous value for money. The programmes they make are brilliant, you know. My worry is this, that why do you have to make programmes, films etc, which have already been made. For example, if I can quote the example of the Open University. I've watched as a young man in Belfast , many of the Open University programmes. Some of which the BBC now show. There's a great number of those. Hundreds of them which are sitting in archives. Perhaps you need to think of contacting the Open University and saying is there a market for those films, can we work out a joint programme for making those valuable to the public. You won't have to make a new programme.
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
I think quite a lot of programmes start out life on the Open University and get into prime time. I think Mark Thompson (Director General) has examples
Mark Thompson (Director General):
Good evening everyone. The Open University and BBC have been partners for decades. We're their main broadcast host. The Open University increasingly invests in programmes which we show in prime time. There's a rich archive. There's an Open University archive. There's a very rich BBC archive. Sometimes that shows - particularly on the digital channels, there are opportunities on BBC Four and BBC Two to see some of the wonderful archive. One recent example, we showed The Great War, a fantastic documentary, originally made in the '60's, we showed it 40 years later. We want to put the archive online, so the public can find it and use it whenever they want. We have 600,000 hours of fantastic programming, we want the public to see it. All I can say, I think Planet Earth demonstrates this, nobody makes natural history programmes like we do. We have new technology, new cameras, we have high definition, we need to go on sending David Attenborough and those guys around the world, making outstanding programmes for today and in the future. That's true for history, British comedy and great dramas. For example, Bleak House. We need to invest in new programming. But you're right we have to find a way of unlocking the archive as well.
Mark Carruthers (presenter):
It's an interesting question, Mark when does the archive become a series of repeats?
Mark Thompson (Director General):
We need to be guided by some of the reactions we heard in the film and some of the reactions we heard here tonight. There are occasions, for example a second showing of Planet Earth is playing, the first showing is 9.00 across most of the UK on a Sunday. It's repeated on a Saturday. Another 3 million people are watching it on the repeat. It's a useful thing to have it there for more people to see. I recognise that seeing comedy X for the 15th time, even if you think it's funny, can really be irritating. It's not saying all repeats are bad. It's saying when is it useful and when is it one repeat too many.
Mark Carruthers (presenter):
Can I ask you to put your hands up if you think the Licence Fee is a good idea, does represent value for money and is something that should continue. And if you think it does not represent Value for Money, and have serious issues with it, and would like to see change. I don't know 90% to 10%, 80% to 20%. An interesting insight.
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
It would be interesting to hear from some of those who put their hands up, why they don't think it's value for money.
Member of Audience:
It's not a matter it's not Value for Money. It's a matter it's compulsory.
Mark Carruthers (presenter):
That's a separate issue. With respect, that's not what I asked.
Member of audience:
Try not paying it and see what happens.
Mark Carruthers (presenter):
Setting aside that you have to pay it, do you think it represents value for money?
Questioner:
Some items on the BBC are very good, and some are total rubbish.
Mark Carruthers (presenter):
Somebody who will not muddy the water with whether it's compulsory or not. But thinks it's not Value for Money.
Question
I think it's not representative of young people. They are the licence fee payers of the future. I think you have to do more involving them in the programming.
Fabian Monds (BBC National Governor for Northern Ireland ) responded:
It's an interesting point which the Broadcasting Council has paid attention to. We have had a couple of meetings with younger people and we have had similar points made at the public events. We would, first of all, like to make sure there's a conduit for young person's opinions coming through to the BBC and BBC Northern Ireland. On the question of an adequate attention to young people in programming, and the like, I think we have to remember, that it's not just television, it's not just radio but it's also online. Young people are increasingly using pod casting and other means of access. The new technologies offer an opportunity for new mechanisms. The facts are that the BBC does have an ageing audience, although there are changes taking place in the listening audiences to radio, and as I say, to the online services. It's something that the governors are very aware of. BBC Three was set up specifically to provide an interest area particularly for the younger age group. There's still some convey to go.
Questioner:
You're talking about the interactive services, the online services and pod casting. We tend to get pushed to the side and that sort of thing is supposed to be adequate for us. Even Sky digital channels, like BBC Three that's not what we pay the licence fee for. If you have a Freeview box, you're paying for Sky digital. If you expect this generation to pay for the licence fee you have to start doing things for them now. There's a lot of things you can do. In my media studies classes, I know nobody what watches the BBC for anything else other than EastEnders and perhaps Neighbours. That's possibly reflective of that generation, you have to cater for the generation, through magazine shows from 5.00 to 7.00 when the audience you are catering for is represented at other times as well. Re-runs of games shows and things are not particularly worthwhile. That time is a suitable time to show programming for that age group. I think that's something you need to think seriously about.
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
It's hard to disagree with what you say. All I would say by way of context, is that there is a period in a human being's development, somewhere after puberty and before mortgage, where they have more on their minds than sitting down and watching television. The way you do as a kid. CBeebies is an enormously successful service, which parents value and pre-school kids really enjoy. Once you get into the teens there's other things to do with your life. That section of the audience is more discerning than any other. They will find the programmes that they really absolutely adore, Little Britain, Neighbours probably still, Hollyoaks, whatever it is they particularly enjoy, they will be loyal and make a date with those programmes. Youngsters - the kind of age group you're talking about, don't engage with television in the same way you do as a younger kid and once you have got the mortgage.
Questioner:
Can I reply to that. A poll of the age group of the people in the building, does everybody agree that we don't interact the same way we do as older people.
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
They are probably doing their homework at that time.
Questioner:
I think they have more time for TV than you maybe think. Though there are other alternatives...
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
You're speaking for them. Let's hear from them.
Second Questioner:
I understand there are going to be a new audience council at the BBC. I would like to ask if there are plans to create an audience council consisting of young people.
Mark Carruthers (presenter):
You touched on this Fabian, basically it's under discussion?
Fabian Monds (BBC National Governor for Northern Ireland ) responded:
The Broadcasting Council supports the idea of there being a grouping that would provide the guidance and advice, and we have two councils working on proposals to achieve that.
Mark Carruthers (presenter):
It seems like a good idea and - and is encouraging to see so many young people in the audience tonight prepared to share their views Does anyone else want to come in here?
Third Questioner:
We do actually watch TV. We've had to do a lot of it for our media studies.
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
You are doing it for work, not for pleasure.
Third Questioner:
But we do watch it. Hollyoaks is on Channel 4 and not the BBC . That's why young people go to different channels. There's nothing for young people on the BBC .
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
What do you watch on the BBC ?
Third Questioner:
Nothing at all! We don't.
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
Nothing at all! How do you know there's nothing on?
Third questioner:
There's nothing on for us.
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
How do you know there's nothing on?
Third Questioner:
Because we've watched it, we watch EastEnders. And then after that it's things that young people aren't interested in.
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
Little Britain ?
Third questioner:
That's on the digital channels.
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
It's not, that's on BBC Two.
Questioner:
It started on the digital channels.
Mark Carruthers (presenter):
What about on the radio as well. There are programmes like Across The Line.
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
What about Radio 1?
Mark Carruthers (Presenter):
BBC Radio Ulster, we had a whole series about rock music recently?
Third Questioner:
We have listened to that. It's been put across to us here that we don't watch TV, so maybe we're pushed aside and use the internet more, but we don't. If we pay the licence fee of the future, we should have...
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
What do you watch out of interest?
Third Questioner:
Most of the programmes I watch are on Channel 4.
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
Like what?
Third Questioner:
Like Hollyoaks, when Big Brother was on, or shows like that, documentary shows. Reality TV.
Mark Thompson (Director-General) added:
Firstly, one thing I want to be clear about, I'm sure young people in terms of hours per week watch less than other audiences, most young people do watch a lot of television. That's the first thing to say. Does the BBC face a problem with this audience? I think we do. There's an acute problem not on television, not on radio, with Radio 1, not in terms of new media. The digital channels are BBC channels, they are paid for by the licence fee and are available to two thirds and upwards of UK households. BBC is £100 million spent on young audiences right there. I think on BBC One and BBC Two, in particular actually with people from the ages of about 12 to around 18 or 19, I think there are very slim pickings for audiences. I think we need to look at how we can plug that gap, invest in programmes for that audience, I came from Channel 4, and know what pieces like Hollyoaks can do. We need to look at whether we can replace some new BBC drama for teens. What we want to do is open up a portal for teens where we get teens to help us make it. We want to employ some teenagers to get it right for this audience.
Question:
I live in an area of Northern Ireland which does not have a digital signal. All I get is analogue signal. I'd like to know what the BBC are going to do it provide for areas like mine to get a signal. I don't wish to pay Sky £150 to watch BBC.
Fabian Monds (BBC National Governor for Northern Ireland) responded:
You don't have to pay Sky a £150 subscription to receive satellite transmissions. There is a free service provided by Sky and the only cost is setting up the antenna to do that. About three times as many people in Northern Ireland receive digital satellite reception as digital terrestrial, Freeview. It is a fact that in Northern Ireland it is not possible, I'm advised, to extend the Freeview coverage partly because of the land border with the Republic and the fact that until the analogue transmitters are switched off it's not going to be possible to switch on digital. This is a matter of considerable interest to the Broadcasting Council, and I wonder, Mark, if I could invite Rick Hill to say a word about this, as a person who has taken particular interest from the Broadcasting Council.
Rick Hill (member of the Broadcasting Council for Northern Ireland):
This is something we at the Broadcasting Council are deeply concerned about. I lived for a while in an area where I didn't receive an analogue signal and the only TV I could get was through Sky. Clearly topography in Northern Ireland is an issue. We have met with Digital UK to talk about the issues relating to digital switchover and how soon we can be part of that so that the transmitters that we need can be switched over to digital so people like you will get a terrestrial digital signal. You can get Free Sat, there's no subscription. I have FreeSat at home, and you get additional services there. You can switch from the English commentary at a rugby game to the Northern Ireland Radio Ulster one. That makes a big difference, particularly at the last match! You can get all of the BBC's free services on Freesat.
Questioner:
I think the Free Sat is a bit of a misnomer because it's not free, you have to pay for it. You can buy Sky where you don't pay a subscription. It will cost me £150 to get it, where I can go out and buy a Freeview box for £25.
Fabian Monds (BBC National Governor for Northern Ireland) responded:
Quite often, it is the case that even with Freeview an aerial upgrade is necessary. So it isn't quite as stark a contrast as you describe in most cases. As Rick Hill has said, nevertheless, it's an unsatisfactory situation at the moment. I assure you that every effort is being made, supported by the governors to make progress. But the BBC is not the only broadcaster in this situation.
Second questioner:
In 2012, the Northern Ireland region and London region are the last two proposed regions of the UK to go digital. What lessons or improvements particularly to high definition broadcasting could Northern Ireland expect to receive from BBC?
Fabian Monds (BBC National Governor for Northern Ireland) responded:
I'm sure Mark Thompson will say something about high definition. The 2012 date is a problem. Northern Ireland has 100% access to broadband, as you know, in terms of computing. It does seem perverse we have to wait for six further years until we go fully digital. Again, we have, and I refer to the Broadcasting Council, have engaged with Digital UK, the body set up to oversee the digital switchover. We do have a commitment that at least the timing of that switchover will be looked at. So there is the possibility of a review of that date to bring it forward. Whether it's brought forward or not the fact remains that digital television provides more choice, more quality, more diversity. But I'm interested in your point about high definition.
Caroline Thomson (BBC's Director of Strategy) responded:
On high definition specifically, the BBC is really pleased to be taking part in an experiment in high definition that Sky will be running, starting this summer. You will be able to get the World Cup in high definition. Some of you who have seen Planet Earth recently on your screens will have seen some of the stuff we have been doing there, about how it's shot in high definition. It's staggering what you can see when it's in high definition. We think that high definition will offer an exciting new development for broadcasting. We are getting high definition on to digital terrestrial, that's a problem rather than doing it on satellite. We are running a limited experiment with that this summer. To answer the question, we hope by 2012, it's part of our licence fee bid, we hope to get the money for it, we hope by 2012 on satellite and digital terrestrial, to offer high-definition programmes across the whole range of our output. We think it will offer a brilliant viewing experience for everyone.
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
It's a great shame we don't have a high definition demonstration here. When you see the clarity of the picture, the best way I can describe it that anybody who has ever seen ice hockey on television, you can't find the puck at any moment during the game. If you watch it on high definition, you can't miss it. The picture is so clear, you and I can see it, which is phenomenal. It's absolutely stunning. We are hopefully going to be able to bring it to you soon.
Emailed Question:
Where as the BBC turned the television which used to be about family entertainment into mostly shows that you couldn't let your family see because of the awful language that appears on almost all programmes. TV producers say it's real life. We don't want to watch life. I admit some of the programmes can be entertaining, but please cut out the swearing we don't want to hear it.
Dermot Gleeson (BBC Governor) responded:
It's a hugely important issue. The BBC Charter rightly requires the BBC not to offend prevailing norms of taste and decency. That's an objective which we take enormously seriously. We have recently revised and sharpened up our guidelines in this area. We have greatly improved our complaints system so if people are offended it is easier for them to complain and they get a response more quickly than they did in the past. But there are difficulties in this area. One of them is that norms of taste and decency vary enormously, they vary between generations, they vary between different parts of the country and between different religious and ethical traditions. Another difficulty is that the BBC is also expected, rightly, to reflect the realities of the society in which we live in all of their rich complexity. Against that background, we try to keep abreast of audience attitudes. We have many seminars with members of the audience to discuss this area - Taste and Decency - to get a feel for what people can live and can't live with. I think the most important ... The important policy that we adopt in this context is the policy of ensuring that the pre-watershed, the pre-9.00pm period on BBC One is a safe haven where you can be confident virtually all of the time, there are occasional mistakes, but virtually all the time you can be confident that you can sit down with your family and with your children and not be caused discomfort or embarrassment. Another important tool of policy is the commitment to always signalling very clearly in advance when post-watershed that we are going to be broadcasting material which some people will find contentious. We do try very hard indeed to ensure that the audience knows in advance if there is material that is going to cause offence. I entirely concede it's a very difficult area, and we don't always get the balance right. But I think given the variety, the pluralism of attitudes in society as a whole, my own view is that we do reasonably well most of the time.
Ruth Deech (BBC Governor) added:
I have some sympathy with this because we live in a difficult age. We have to balance freedom of speech against the language that offends people. You have to give an honest portrayal of what is going on in society. I think the BBC has a special responsibility towards the preservation of the beauty of all the languages, not just the English, but all the minority languages as well. I think a majority expect the BBC to uphold certain standards. If people don't like what they're hearing they can complain both to the BBC and to Ofcom, about issues of taste and decency. They are very difficult questions. I know that, because there was a Christmas I was away abroad on holiday, when I got back, I couldn't open my front door, because there are 300 or 400 letters of people complaining about the language on Jerry Springer. I read some of them, not all of them and I could see that people held those views really very sincerely and had been offended. Yet objectively speaking that was a work of art that didn't fall foul of any British law. It was a difficult issue. The BBC understands the necessity of what it has to do to preserve the best in all the British languages.
Ranjit Sondhi (BBC Governor) added:
What people find difficult is the gratuitous use of bad language. Not when it is part of the drama or whatever, but when it's used gratuitously. I think all of us, not the BBC, but society as a whole faces a big challenge as we move into the on demand world, where people can download programmes, whatever time of the day, from whatever source, then the question of maintaining matters of taste and decency becomes a challenge for all of us all. I think we have to engage on a big consultation on how to do that in the very near future.
Questioner in studio:
A contentious area connected with this particular question, isn't so much the programme itself but the pre-watershed trailers. Because very often in the trailers that run from 5.00 onwards, you get snippets from the actual programme which make you cringe.
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
The trailers are absolutely subjected to the same guidelines as programmes there is no difference. Even though there may be course language in a program after 9.00, the trailer should not under any circumstances contain that. I don't think there has been any examples of that in the last two years, otherwise I would have seen the complaints.
Questioner in studio:
There's sexual connotations in the trailers.
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
Visual explicit ...? There shouldn't be. The guidelines are the guidelines. They should be adhered to in trailers as well as the full programmes.
Question
My question is to do with the issue language, to do with the disappointment of the Irish-speaking community in the north, on the white paper, and the complete lack of clarity on Irish language programming in that white paper. In Scotland for example, per Gaelic speaker, it's £156 per person, and in Wales £265 per person. In Northern Ireland it's £3 per Irish speaker. We are very, very disappointed on this. We need clarity on this. The White Paper doesn't give us grounds for hope. We will need hope in the future. We hope the governors can take it on board.
Fabian Monds (BBC National Governor for Northern Ireland) responded:
BBC Northern Ireland has a pretty good record in moving from remarkably little coverage, to now where there's 265 hours of radio and 10 hours of television in the year. And attention is paid to the Ulster Scots issue as well. Your specific point about the White Paper. I have enquired about that myself and the DCMS position is the reference to minority languages is intended to include the Irish language and Ulster Scots. When the Trust to which the gentlemen has referred is established the new position of the BBC will be to operate on the basis of service licences, which will be provided to each service, and among those is the nations and regions. Within that service licence context attention will be given specifically to the language question. I don't think the figures which you give are absolutely fair comparisons, because the context in Northern Ireland is certainly different from Scotland and Wales . In Scotland and Wales the BBC is the provider of Gaelic or the Welsh language. In Northern Ireland there are other options - 40% of the population does receive RTE transmissions but in addition TG4 has an arrangement to make services broadcast in Northern Ireland. The overall question of more provision of the Irish language, not just quantity but quality, is given attention.
Question:
I'm a member of the acting community here. I would love to know why BBC Northern Ireland drama continuously makes it's TV dramas outside of Northern Ireland creating an employment vacuum in it's local area. What is the point of having local TV if you don't make anything here?
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
There's a separation of responsibility. The BBC Governors responsibility is to see that the BBC makes a proper investment in the talent that exists not just in London but outside London . Over the past years the policy of creating centres of excellence of network production outside of London has been very successful. It has been very successful here in Northern Ireland . How that money is spent, what writers want to write, what directors want to direct and actors want to act in, in the end is for the management to decide how the money is spent. Our interest as BBC Governors is seeing that we do invest in the talent. I've worked with talent all my life. I believe passionately that it's wrong that talent has to come to London in order to get a job. The history of British broadcasting over the last 30, 40 years shows there's enormous wealth of talent outside of London . That we're losing out, because we haven't invested properly or ITV has now moved into a consolidated mass in London . The BBC is spending more and more outside of London . That investment is paying off as an awful lot of talent comes through. Particularly in Northern Ireland and particularly in drama. Decisions of how that money is spent for what projects is a matter for the executive. I don't know if one of you want to answer how you spend the money and why you're making drama commissioned in Northern Ireland that is made not in Northern Ireland.
Mark Thompson (Director-General) added:
There's two reasons why we would want network drama to be made in Northern Ireland. One is to support the creative industries, actors, writers here. The second is also to reflect the way of life and the culture and the traditions of this part of the United Kingdom , to the whole of the United Kingdom . Two reasons for doing it, it's about rendition. What I feel is over the last 18 months we are made real progress in terms of the drama team here getting commissions, the hours being made, there's interesting work and development. It will be a bumpy year in terms of commissions. I have to say, I also, and my colleagues know that, believe, not just here but with the commissioners in London, we need to work hard, but make sure that a higher proportion of the drama is made here. We should be shifting the balance.
Anna Carragher (BBC Controller, Northern Ireland) added:
We have to work hard and work harder to shift the balance. The nature of drama is it tends to be cyclical. You go through a time when one area has very little production, and then a few years later the wheel turns and you have production in other areas, and that will happen here. We have put a lot of effort in the last of building up more production, and a great deal is going into production for the coming year. Yes, most of it is being made in England , a certain amount of it is being made in the south, however, we mustn't underestimate what that means in terms of being able to build. You come from the acting profession, acting is a mobile profession and people do move around and if I look at the people who I have worked with and in many cases started their career in BBC Northern Ireland, people do move around. If I look at the people who have worked with and in many cases started their career in BBC Northern Ireland drama it's a very long and honourable people, people like James Nesbitt and Amanda Burton, who still like and still want to work with us. I very much hope that in a year or 18 months' time, that you and I will have a very different conversation, if we are sitting in this context again. I would point out things we are making in England , do involve Northern Ireland talent, very, very strongly. Most drama will start with the writer. Particularly the example of Terry Cafola who wrote Holy Cross, he went on to write Messiah. A BBC Northern Ireland drama made in England . He's now writing a drama series, set in Belfast , of which we have high hopes. That's the way we get talent and win the confidence in what is the toughest areas of television.
Questioner:
You said in the beginning we should be hard on you. I don't think we're seeing it. I think it's all talk. On your website, the programmes that you flag up as in BBC Northern Ireland drama done really well, none of them are made here. None of them, apart from Jimmy Nesbitt, I can't see the people from here. Messiah, Messiah,... Nice Guy Eddie and Murphy's Law. I think you need to put the action and stop with the talking.
Anna Carragher (BBC Controller, Northern Ireland) added:
I take the rebuke. We have to bear in mind there's a lot of other network output that we make from BBC Northern Ireland. We're a centre of excellence for current affairs. We're a growing current affairs output. If I look back across this month for example, across one weekend we had Just for Laughs an entertainment programme made and set in Belfast, and we had Get Smarter, the production team was completely Belfast based, although the programme was made in a studio in London, for reasons of capacity and no other reasons at all, this studio wasn't big enough for it. And we have Songs of Praise, and Facing the Truth series, made in Northern Ireland . We have to look at the wider context for network production. And finally for drama we have a very flourishing radio drama department which makes a lot of plays and uses a lot of talent here in Northern Ireland . You're right to be hard, and I hope we'll have - I'll have a different conversation with you in a year's time.
Question:
I'd like to ask a question, it's not an allegation, it's only a question. I have a letter from the head of your radio Susan Lovell. I was interviewed last October /November, it was a funny interview. It was with a guy from the Law Society. He was allowed to read from a pre-prepared speech on the Stephen Nolan show and went on to do a presidential speech and didn't take any questions from me. 2,000 people from Lurgan want the Law Society to be more open and transparent and why did the BBC facilitated Mr John Bailey a smooth passage. He got a very smooth passage. If the BBC finds out that that radio programme was rigged, will you hold an investigation?
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
You should make a formal complaint.
Questioner:
I have done sir. Your head of radio said it was a balance.
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
You have the right to appeal to the governors.
Questioner
Will you hold an inquiry if the programme is rigged?
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) added:
It will be investigated.
Questioner:
Will you hold an inquiry if it's rigged?
Mark Byford (Deputy Director-General) added:
You make the complaint to BBC Northern Ireland, because that's where the broadcast was from. They will look at the complaint and give you a response. You can have two exchanges. If you don't feel happy with it, there's an independent complaints' unit - the editorial complaints' unit, independent of management, independent of Anna, independent of you, independent of anyone in BBC Northern Ireland. They will look at that and give you a response. If you are unhappy with that, you can then go to the Governors - the Governors' Programme Complaints Committee and they on behalf of the licence payers, a supreme body are the final appeal. They will look at it as well and take their own independent advice and make an adjudication. You will get a response from Anna and the BBC team within ten days. And a response from the editorial complaints unit within a fixed code of practice. And then you'll get a response from the governors programme complaint committee.
Questioner:
Will the governors make the response publicly known?
Mark Byford (Deputy Director-General) added:
All of their complaints are published. All of the findings are published too.
Question:
My main point is basically about local sports coverage and in particular local football, or the lack of it. Every other main regions in the UK - BBC Scotland and BBC Wales have dedicated magazine shows, dedicated results services at all levels, international and local level, yet Northern Ireland is left out. I understand that you have Season Ticket, but that's a general sports show and doesn't show enough football for people to be happy with. There is demand for this product. There are supporters and demand for this, why isn't it shown?
Mark Carruthers (Presenter):
You say there's demand for it. One of our questioners this evening said there's too much money spent on sport.
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) responds:
It's a matter for the executive.
Peter Johnston (BBC Head of Broadcasting for Northern Ireland) responds:
I understand your point about Scotland and Wales . One of the challenges is we have a diverse range of popular sports in Northern Ireland . We have Gaelic football, rugby, soccer, quite a range of sports, and motorbikes. If you look across the year, we provide a wide range of coverage of those. We have sought with Season Ticket to find a regular home for all sports fans to keep up to date with local sport. You get into a question of resources and the balance of audience needs. There is a balance, have we too little or too much? We provide a lot of live coverage on soccer internationals, and a regular results services across many platforms. It will never be enough for all of the local sports fans, I suspect. It will be still too much for others. We take the point and understand the point.
Questioner:
I understand the point about the internationals. My point is about the club game. Internationals are totally different. I know you showed a live match in December and a live match in May but the way things are going they could involve the same clubs playing together. It's the league as a whole not just the big clubs in it. Final Score, that's great. But unfortunately most people at five o'clock on a Saturday afternoon are at the match or coming home from the match.
Peter Johnston (BBC Head of Broadcasting for Northern Ireland) responds:
There's nothing more to add. There'll never be enough quite for the coverage. We try to provide a range of it, the best service we can. We seem to do that.
TASTE AND DECENCY - JERRY SPRINGER THE OPERA
Question:
I'd like to direct my question directly to Ruth Deech. Besides all of the letters in your hallway, I'd like to think you would take into consideration 65,000 complaints from viewers about the Jerry Springer "work of art" in your words, in which God was portrayed as an idiot and Jesus Christ was portrayed as a homosexual, the Virgin Mary was raped by an angel. I don't see that as a work of art. I resent my money being used to make those works of art to be publicised and shown, even after the watershed, in which children let's be realistic, the vast majority of children have televisions in their bedrooms. Children are watching that programme, it's disgusting they made it. It's also disgusting that on your website the writers are still getting publicity and they're advertising it still on your website, using my money.
Ruth Deech (BBC Governor) responded:
Parents have to have some control over what their children are watching. I set that one aside. The point about Jerry Springer was in the end the governors dismissed the complaint but so did Ofcom. It wasn't just the BBC saying we have done it right. Jerry Springer: The Show ran in the West End, I think it's still going on around the country, ran in the West End for two years without any trouble, without anyone saying that it was against the law or blasphemous or anything like that. It was only when it was realised that the BBC was showing it that the trouble started. So I think the real issue is that a lot of people felt this was not the right sort of thing to show on the BBC , not that it was against the law. Then, I'm afraid people have to differ. There must be some artistic merit in it, because it's been a very popular show on the road. It was thoroughly analysed as a complaint within the BBC and by Ofcom. They held against it. There's another answer, there are lots of things I don't like on television, I don't like sport, you can turn it off as far as I'm concerned. If you don't like it after a couple of minutes, turn it off. That's a simple answer, when there is something as deeply offensive as that. I know the view is sincerely held.
Question:
I'd like to know why there's no more community or home-grown talent shown on BBC television? Do we really need to have to watch EastEnders every night of the week almost? Repeated again on BBC Three, and then Sunday afternoon taken up with it. Surely to goodness we can have something to do with what we have been coming through the Troubles for nearly 40 years, yet we are still seeing violence on the television?
Mark Carruthers (Presenter):
This is the only time I can turn to a lady and say "Dry Your Eyes". It sounds very rude, but it's the name of a locally-made television programme. Is that the kind of thing you are talking about?
Questioner:
As a member of a community association in Mourne View in Lurgan. I have been at the one of Portadown. I raised the point that we have had troubles, the young folk of our estate last year done a Santa's grotto. I rang the BBC and asked them would they come out and show the positive side of Mourn View. Nobody came.
Pat Loughrey (BBC Director Nations and Regions) responded:
I have heard it before. As someone who, when I was in Northern Ireland, always lived in rural Northern Ireland as opposed to Belfast , I think there is a lot of life beyond the capital that gets neglected in our coverage, those kinds of stories. We have very specific plans going forward for more local television in Northern Ireland . To try to capture the stuff that makes this community tick and the things that make us proud. By the nature of the experience we have been through for 30 years, there are many things of which we are embarrassed, we rightly have to cover them. But equality, there are positive aspects of life here that local television will be able to capture and celebrate. Just as local radio is compelling here, if we can find that degree of localness in television, it will change. It will give us something very different in the offer.
One point about the coverage of local sport, apart from your frustration, there's frustration on our part as well. We have cameras at practically every one of those games. We capture much action that in the constraints of the ordinary linear analogue schedule, we cannot broadcast. As the online offer unfolds, and truly it does bring much opportunity, we are convinced we can find a way of creating a portal for sport, a sportal!, where those games, those goals will be made available to all of you. I think that broadband offers us a lot more breathing space for different kind of content.
Questioner:
The BBC report extensively on education but coverage is different on a regional national level. Do you BBC want to treat Northern Ireland as a special case in duplicating this effort? I think it's well known we are under direct rule at the moment. It's one Government's policy that affects parents throughout the UK . But it seems to be that we have two separate coverages of education.
Anna Carragher (BBC Controller, Northern Ireland) responds:
If you saw Politics Show on Sunday on BBC One that view was put to Peter Hain. There was a film about the grammar school debate and Peter Hain was quizzed quite rigorously about it. That very point about one policy in England and one policy in Northern Ireland was directly put to him. There are two points there. One is about the actual debate about education. I think that many of our programmes have covered that debate and covered it quite fully across particularly I'm thinking about Talk Back and Stephen Nolan. We covered it on Newsnight many, many times and we will continue to do so, because it's of concern to parents in Northern Ireland , who have strong views on either side of the argument. The other argument is the political argument, the direct rule ministers what they're doing. People like Mark and programmes like Hearts and Minds and Politics Show and Let's Talk, where those questions are put and will continue to be put.
Questioner:
I'd like to know why there's no more community or home-grown talent shown on BBC television? Do we really need to have to watch EastEnders every night of the week almost? Repeated again on BBC Three, and then Sunday afternoon taken up with it. Surely to goodness we can have something to do with what we have been coming through the Troubles for nearly 40 years, yet we are still seeing violence on the television?
PROGRAMMING AND CARE FOR AUDIENCES
Question:
It's to do with Facing the Truth programme, which I thought was an excellent effort by the BBC, many people have been affected by the violence. It did stir up a lot of conversation in the coffee shops, and sports changing rooms - everywhere people were talking about it. I supported it. One thing I was left unsure about, and probably a lot of people were left unsure about, was it done for effect, or was it done as a genuine way to help people resolve the pain of the past. While there was follow-up, it relied on personal stories, rather than seeing the effects of the programme, and getting a solid way forward for the people who suffered from the trauma of the Troubles. My appeal is when you do something like that, can you think about it more in terms of the effects it will have for the people, and the benefits it will have.
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) responds:
It's difficult for somebody from London to come in and pass an opinion on something as sensitive and as difficult as that programme. I'm proud of the fact that the BBC attempted it. I'm proud of the fact that the BBC executed the programme with great care and attention. And I'm, in a way, relieved that the response to programme, which not without criticism, but there has been a sense that this programme has started a debate. It certainly could never have ended a discussion or a debate or resolved anything - television can't do that. But it has made it, in a sense, okay to have the debate about reconciliation and so on, in Northern Ireland . I thought the response - I looked at the comments that people have made in the newspapers, and so on, on this, and it has been very measured, it has been constructive and overall I would say not - it has been critical in certain aspects but it has been sorted of welcoming of the programme. Immensely difficult thing to do. It's for the people of Northern Ireland , really, to pass judgment on whether they think it was worthwhile or not. What it was not was a piece of meretricious exploitive television, and the people who people who took part in the programme, the relatives and victims and so on, did so, they knew exactly... It was informed consent. They knew it was going to be a television programme. They knew what they were getting into. I think the results, so far, overall have been constructive. It's not for me to judge how the people of the north would respond to it. Fabian, you're closer to it than I am.
Fabian Monds (BBC National Governor for Northern Ireland) responded:
Briefly, a number of people were concerned about the programme in advance of it being broadcast. The BBC Governors asked has attention been given to all the issues you have mentioned, including the care for the participants and the adherence to editorial standards. We are assured, and the Broadcasting Council had the editor, Jeremy Adams in front of it last Friday, to discuss the implications of the programme. I think one thing I would comment on is that the way in which the programme was put together, the way in which it was broadcast and the Spotlight programmes that followed it - I think it demonstrates we have moved some distance in Northern Ireland, that that programme and the other programmes were shown and the debate and the reaction was so mature. The points that you make are very valuable considerations for the BBC Governors, and indeed for management BBC Northern Ireland to take into account.
Ranjit Sondhi (BBC Governor) added:
The BBC has a way of measuring the impact of programmes through an index called the appreciation index. I'm sure that the appreciation index was high for that programme. One of the highest ever recorded. To some extent the people are the judge of a programme like that.
Ruth Deech (BBC Governor) added:
I watched this. I felt privileged to have watched one of the three programmes. It was worth making for the historical record alone. It had a tremendous impact. I feel for those closely involved. The BBC does have a good aftercare. You can phone us up. I don't know if it operates in Northern Ireland?
Dermot Gleeson (BBC Governor) added:
It does.
Ruth Deech (BBC Governor) added:
I'm surprised there wasn't more young interest in it. I think it was an enormously valuable programme.
Anna Carragher (BBC Controller, Northern Ireland) responds:
We at BBC Northern Ireland thought very, very long and hard about making this programme and it was made with very, very great care. And we're acutely conscious that there's not a single answer. There isn't a right way or an only way, for us as a society to look at these issues. This is one model. Your point about follow-up - I've been talking to the controller of BBC Two and Jeremy about possible follow-up programmes. Not necessarily the same way, looking at those issues of coming to terms with the past, and can assure you that the care and support for the individuals is ongoing.
Question:
Just going back to the question of the licences and value. Last Christmas I lifted up a copy of one of the TV news things, and there were that many repeats of repeats of repeats being shown over the Christmas period I could have acted the lead roles in any of them, I saw them that often.
Michael Grade (BBC Chairman) responds:
The point is taken. As I said earlier it's partly a question of money. And the incidents - the trend of the incidents of repeats is slowing down and beginning to reduce. But it is a function of money. We should be repeating out of excellence and choice, not out of necessity, that's the key. I'm with you, I can do the chandelier scene from Only Fools and Horses without a director!